"Aleksandr Dugin: It means that this frontier Russophobia which, basically, is typical for the entire Europe, is more explicit at Europe’s borders. Particularly with Poles, historically they have demonstrated it most of all, and it reached its climax in Ukrainism. And this is the most important thing here. You know, now, of course, our President has said that we do not intend to exterminate Ukraine, much less we intend to exterminate Ukrainians. But Ukrainian idea must be definitely exterminated by us.

Roman Golovanov: I am just about to come to this final. This is Ukraine, it is now built up on this, it stands, the Russian blood is flowing now in the rivers there. And this is their idea, this is their ideology, of all that Ukraine which exists. And how could we leave it? Could we have all this next to us? If the Ukrainian idea has been eliminated, will the state remain or not?

Aleksandr Dugin: Look. In the world, actually, in spite of all the economists, experts, all the scientists with graphs and volumes about the fact that oil production decides something. In spite of all this intellectual junk, it is ideas that really rule the world. Only ideas. Only philosophical models.

We are dealing with liberalism, which is an idea. With Atlanticism, which is an idea. With the West, which is an idea. With liberal progress, which is an idea. And we are dealing with Ukraine, which is above all an idea. It is an idea. First an idea comes to life. Then this idea shapes in the form of intellectual movements, trends, groups, organizations, parties. Then this idea splits into institutions. And then it becomes a country. If we eliminate Ukraine as an idea, if we realize that Ukraine is first of all an idea. And if we try to describe it on the level of an idea and start, in fact, the process of the struggle of an idea, it's like almost a battle of angels. For that, first of all, we need our idea.

Just like this, just by the fact that they are bad, that they hurt us, that they kill us, that they are bastards. It's not enough, it doesn't work at all. The idea will reproduce itself even in a tiny territory. We will advance, God willing, further, liberating Novorossiya. If the idea of Ukraine remains, the whole problem we're fighting will remain. If we dislodge them in Galicia and Volyn, and Kiev is with us, still this Ukrainian idea will remain. And God forbid something goes differently, turns the wrong way, it will flare up again.

So we have to think about actually eliminating Ukraine as an idea. It is not so simple. If we succeed, then Ukraine itself, as a territory, even as some kind of political entity, can be. But it should not exist as an idea. This is the fundamental point. Ukraine can be preserved. Ukraine as an idea, as nationalism, as a form of historical self-consciousness, as the quintessence of Western Russophobia.

We must wipe it on this territory, up to the borders of the West, up to Volyn, Galicia and Podkarpattya, Uzhgorod we must wipe off the face of the earth. But the struggle of ideas is very difficult. War is only military strategies. Our missiles, our drones, our soldiers, our air defense, our infantry, our army, even our economy, our politics are only an element. All of this is very important, but if the idea remains, it can be reborn from an inch of land literally, because Russophobia will not disappear. If Ukraine is not an idea, Russophobia will start much further west.

That's the one we probably can't handle. It's the identity of the West. We have a different civilization. We will defend ourselves, they will defend their will for hegemony. It will probably be until the end of time. But Ukraine is just a prerequisite for us, just a prerequisite to give a truly symmetrical fight to the West. Without Ukraine, if we don't absorb it, if we don't make it friendly.

For example, there is no such problem of destroying Belarus or capturing Belarus. Because, first of all, it is friendly, secondly, it is sane, it is manageable, it is orderly, it is brotherly, it is different from us. But the Belarusian idea, which is also there, is not hostile to us. And this idea of Belarus, it fits into our concept of the world. And the idea of Ukraine does not. That's the point. And it is this idea that we should fight against. How to defeat the idea is a very delicate question. First of all, it is absolutely impossible to defeat it with matter. That's important. Matter is important. Matter is also involved in this battle, but the idea is defeated by the idea."